All right, we are live. Welcome everyone. I'm Danielle Patterson, CEO of
Family Office Access, and I'm excited to be here with our live audience to host this edition of our lunch and learn
series. In today's session, we're diving into bold leadership, values aligned
capital, and evolving roles of private investors. Our guests bring both global
perspective and local relevance. From shaping international standards to working directly with families as they
navigate sustainable development goals, innovation, and impact. Whether you
advise capital, deploy it, today's conversation is about how we can move from principle to practice. To guide us,
we have two remarkable speakers. One helped create global frameworks now used
by institutions worldwide. The other partners closely with families deciding where and how to act. I'm thrilled to
welcome them both. And I'll begin by introducing our first speaker. Welcome, Herman Moulder. Herman is a former
banking executive and is widely regarded as a pioneer in sustainability related
initiatives. He's played a founding role in creating the equator principles,
co-founded the global reporting initiative, and has been a key contributor to major global standards
such as the OECD guidelines for multinational enterprises and the United
Nations guiding principles on business and human rights. He currently chairs the Impact Economy Foundation and is
known for his championing the shift from CFO to CVO, chief value officer, helping
organizations rethink how they define and deliver value. Welcome, Herman.
Thank you. Next. Yes. Next, I would like to welcome Nava Mashia. Nava is a former diplomat
turned strategic wealth adviser with deep expertise in impact investing and developing innovative financial models
for social enterprise. She is the creator of the glass box unlocking capital from family offices, an online
course that equips social enterprises with tools to engage and raise capital effectively. Passionate about
sustainable investing, Nava serves as a trusted adviser to the global steering group for impact investing and holds
leadership roles across numerous boards and initiatives at the intersection of business, culture, and diplomacy.
Welcome, Nava. Thanks for inviting me, Danielle. My pleasure. It is an honor to have you
both, and I have really been looking forward to today's conversation. I'm I'm a curious mind and you both have such
deep expertise and and bring different perspectives. So, everyone joining us
live is in for a treat and I I appreciate your generosity of your time and leadership today. So, to open, I
would love to really hear how each of you arrived at the impactful work you do and I feel it will just set a good
foundation for our broader conversation. So, Herman, I'll I'll start with you. I'd love to know how you came into this
work and perhaps you can also share I know from our former conversations a
little bit about the two early wakeup calls you had in your career and how those have shaped your outlook.
Thank you very much Danielle. It's a real pleasure to be here with you and all those who are participating in the
conversation. I hope that we will have a lot of reactions and comments and more learnings for all of us also.
uh I have about 52 years of professional learning deep learning behind me. I
started my professional career in 1972 just before the oil crisis and you the
first oil crisis and you can imagine that these events these geopolitical events shape your career at least uh in
the first years which exactly happens to me. I started in the oil industry and then became active in banking. So my my
career is about 26 years of black I would say oil and money and then I had
my first wakeup call in 1998 and after that I had 26 years of more green. I
don't know the learning is still going on. I don't know where I will be in the next 101 15 years but probably it's it's
it may have a touch of blue because I'm living in Europe and of course in the
new geopolitical reality I think we we all looking at how we redefine and
revitalize our own identities that's true for the US it's true for us it's true for China it's everywhere my first
wakeup call was an interesting one because I uh was I was the chair of the group risk committee at AB&M
And there was a proposal and and we were approached by the um by one of the NOS's
friends of the earth and say well you are participating in a mining project in Westerium
and um that project is corrupt it's dirty it is human rights etc etc and
until that moment I was as a banker traditional banker mostly focused on the
inbound risks of a bank we were less concerned with the outbound impacts
actually make on communities and on nature and what have you. So they said your project is not uh up to what your
standards should be. So that was the first time we were as a bank approached by a project in which we are financing.
I asked my colleague in in Indonesia the country manager to go to West Irion and he visited and he came to he came back
to me and said Hmon they absolutely right. It is not the type of project we should be in. That was my first wakeup
call where I was moving from focusing on on the inbound risk for a bank
to add to that a new dimension having the outbound impact and that was my mission thereafter.
The second uh wakeup call came in 2002. I was again chairing the committee and
we were competing with City Bank at the time for a oil project in Venezuela
and City Bank at that point in time was prepared to to uh accept an
environmental impact study by Chevron. I can mention the names because this is in the public domain. Um and I was not
prepared uh to accept a Chevron environmental impact study. I wanted to
have an independent one. So we lost the deal. So the house was too small in Ammo
Bank. Fortunately, I met with Peter Wip, the then chief of of IFC. And he said,
"I have a problem, Peter. I I I I know I'm right, but I don't get it because the market is against me." Peter said,
"I also have a problem. I'm too small." So we convened the 12 largest project
finance banks in the world. the Americans, the French, the Dutch, the the the Germans, the Asians
in the beginning and asked in everyone to come with a case where they were struggling with communities, unions, uh,
NOS's and what have you. And interesting enough, we had 12 different cases in the
morning and then we had one common cause in the afternoon. We said this is a sector issue. we have to raise the bar
and that's how the equator principles became the third wake call was 2020 2012 when
we were in Rio for for Rio plus 20 and it was a lot of ESG and climate concern
in those days and we felt there must be something more it is not just do no harm
we also have to work on doing good better and well and that is where the
SDGs of which I'm the the co-founder in the Netherlands the SGS came about as a positive opportunity agenda or for
business but also for working together and we're coming back to the issue of uh
community programs and blended finance for all stakehold
societal problems to work together business society and governments. So those are my three wakeup calls.
Amazing. What an evolution. What a journey. I love your green or I'm sorry
your black to green and now what the future holds and what an impact and a
leader you've been incredible to to learn about the the deep roots of your career history. Thank you for sharing
that Nava and I'd love to hear from you. Can you share a bit about your path and
what contributes to the unique ways in which you work with families? Well, I think everybody has their wakeup
call. It's very interesting to her Herman's uh wakeup call. My wakeup call was in COVID when I was working in the
family office and um a lot of ultra ultra high netwealth families here in Geneva, global families that have their
uh capital in Geneva. And when COVID hit, I realized that um at the time I
was the YPO officer for impact and I realized I'm I'm doing this proono for
Yo, why am I not doing it during my day job? why am I not using my influence uh
to mobilize private capital towards impact opportunities? And that's what I did. I just, you know, I announced on
LinkedIn, not knowing exactly, Danielle, what I'm going to be doing next, but I knew this I cannot be doing anymore. I
cannot just be doing conventional investing anymore. And when you do that, and Herman can vouch for this, that the
more that you work with people that are on the same boat and the same the same goal as you, they tend to help each
other. That you know, you're working with people that tend to open up the rolodex
and tend to help each other because we realize that time is of the essence. So for co for me was a big uh wakeup call
and I think also for the family offices the next generation have a lot of influence over the principles uh that
made their uh wealth in a certain age. They're now telling their parents we should be investing in regenerative
farming. We should be they're putting different uh agenda items on the
investment committee table. Wow. I love these wakeup calls. And how
brave of you to just know you wanted to make that change, to not necessarily
know exactly what that looks like, but you put that in motion and like you said, the collaboration, the like-minded
values, it just perpetuates. It's like the ripple effect. So incredible.
Well, I have spoken, Herman, with you before. you've mentioned the six
capitals and I was hoping that you could share with our audience a little bit more today um how there's you know the
capital of business which relies on financial natural social human innovation and existing facilities. Can
you share a little bit more about this and um really tell us how you think that
links to true price, true profit and true benefits in a way that that our
audience who's not as experienced will understand.
If you look at um if you look at the the reality of these days
then I would say we're living in the age of consequences and the consequences which we all facing uh is climate change
it's pollution it's scarcities it is it is inequalities these are big issues
which we all directly or indirectly are are are confronted with and and I think
it's it's it's fair to say that if you are in business and whether SME business in value change of large corporations or
with products imports from other countries or or corporates who have complicated value chains. It is clear
that you have a significant dependency on on on society and everything but it's
the positives and the negatives of society. So there is a a direct self-interest because of these
dependencies and obstacles to for for business for CEOs for for for the directors ofmemes to look around and say
what does the neighborhood in which we live I'm living what does it mean? Uh there's of course also an indirect
self-interest that you don't want for reputational bending reasons be associated with with the harm which you
may do and in the transparent world in which we're living harm you can be exposed very easily. rightly or wrongly
but it happens. So from a business point of view and I'm still a businessman but I'm very much a
business in society and I'm a businessman who uh is promoting stewardship of business uh into uh
making major contribution to positive contributions to to a better world and a better business. It is clear that that
we in business need to to to recognize what is going around us not just today
but even more the impact we make on tomorrow and I think that sometimes in in the world of today we are so focused
on the short term that we forget the long term it the whole give you one
example if you look at reducing short-term interests prematurely that may have an effect of
too high longerterm interest but the same is true when it's you're not acting on climate change, the bill will be will
be will be payable 10 years from to your generation. So the reality is that we need to
address these issues uh for with with with ambition uh and together. No, you
have the regulatory approach which is looking at at at how companies should
look at business and and some of you may know that we have some regulatory initiatives in Europe where what we call
the double materiality in assessment is is included to explain that. It means
that a company is obliged not only not only to assess and have validated by
insurance companies uh to uh the risks they're incurring but also the impacts they're making. So it's it goes to I
mean as a banker I was inbound your your members all are very much outbound
oriented but there is a bridge now between both worlds because we all recognize we are so to speak in the same
boat. Coming back to that to that metaphor and I think we should recognize that and work together. We will come on
back on that later. We in in in true in in true price I go further. We also say
listen if if take a take a pair of jeans the mark the price the retail price is
what's it be 20 to $200 in the market market price. But if you if you would
look in the value in the supply chain of the genes and you would internalize and monetize all the externalities and
you're talking about in this case labor uh labor rights, you talk about soil
degradation, pollution, water. If you gross that up in the product price, you
come to a true price. And in the case of beans, that should be something like $30 $30 more.
But the question is, what do we do with that? Well, first it gives insight on on companies what where
they in their value chain they can improve their practice but also they can explain they can also
reorganize their value chain and thirdly they can appeal to the say the the their clients and say listen I'm
I'm I'm inviting you to pay a little bit more for that gene pair of jeans but I'm
doing a better business. Tony Shokon is a Dutch company which is is is is an
interesting example. You now see it also at all airports in the US which is really focused in the last 10 years and
we were as true to prize very supportive to them to to look in their value chain and and and
and come with an honest story and I think that is what we all want. Uh so
and the last point I would like to know would like to mention is that true pricing true profits true benefits it
looks over and the SDGs 17 goals and quite a number of targets and and and
and and objectives it looks complicated but I
think if you realize that back in 1934 when US GAP was introduced there was a
lot of objection because no one was fit for purpose. Not not the reporting companies, not the
supervisors, not the auditors, not the investors, all the stakeholders of of US
GA which was financial accounting which was introduced. We came over that and
the reality I think it and that was complex. So I believe that the way we moving now with much more integrated
reporting along six capitals and each of cost and benefits is an essential
complex way of of grasping the future we want.
Very powerful. I I love the idea of being a steward of business and really
evaluating the value chain and in this day and age with all of the tools and AI
being able to truly report and analyze the the outcomes. I think it's really
powerful and people want transparency. They want honesty. So it's it's
incredible the way you are really looking from the start to the end and what what that looks like in reality.
Let me let me one make one comment in this because as you mentioned AI when I retired from ABN animal bank I was all
by myself. I mean I was of course in a number of organizations but that I was all by myself
since early 2024. I have three or four associates because I'm actively using AI and I think that
is an accelerator. Of course you have to validate the data but the level of conversation and the
speed by which you can operate is so much improved. So I'm I'm I'm really I wouldn't say addicted but I I I believe
that the changes we want to make also as philanthropists or as impact investors
can be significantly improved by using AI as a reference as a co-part not more.
Absolutely. I agree. I'm encouraged by the the speed. It can just help us
accelerate some of these things that otherwise would take so long. Yes. Thank
you for that. And Nava, with the work you do with families, what do you find actually really moves them
from just caring in principle about something to actually acting in practice? Um, feel free. I I don't know
that you'd be able to name names, but if you have a story, that's always welcomed, but love seeing the actual
catalysts at play. I I'm happy to share some examples. Uh, and I'm proud of these examples and also
they're inspirational. So it's role models for people who may be listening and uh a lot of these family offices
become uh exist because they sold a company. So they had a business for
example Elmote uh is um the principal of the Nest family office and they had a
family business for tractors, agricultural machinery in Belgium and
when they had a liquidity event she decided that she wants to help food tech
something close to her vertical that they made the wealth in but they can still um have familiarity and also
influence. So El is an incredible woman, a leader and taking her privilege, you
know, she's I think she's third generation of the family, but it's a privilege, it's a responsibility, and
she decided not just to retire in midlife, but to start this family office
and put it to good use the capital and the privilege that she has to food and agarth,
it's with a C, Kenny, it's in London. It's also a family um the Eisenberg
family that were very uh successful and the daughter Diane has decided to start
a first impact first family office which means that they take the first loss
trans everything is according to impact uh and also if you're not making the
highest return uh and so that's a very interesting family office I'm in touch
with their team in London that's um very highly reputable.
Um, another one is the impact office in Geneva and this is started by Risto who's a Finnish uh fourth generation and
and Risto the wealth was made in sustainable bakery. You could still go to Helsinki and taste their cakes. Now
Risto doesn't know how to bake but he knows how to manage the wealth of the family and he also teaches other single
family offices in Geneva next generation. What is impact? It's a lot of raising awareness, a lot of time of
educating. Uh, and he has a great event in Helsinki next to the slush in November which I highly recommend
everyone to attend. Um, and the last example Danielle if you permit me is as
um Hari she's a YPO member uh appear and she left a very impressive career in
Wall Street to start her fund in emerging markets. And so everybody has
their pivot, everybody has their own personal story, but these are just some examples and I consider them role models
uh of how other families should put their wealth to use. 100%. Those are such amazing, inspiring
examples and I'm so encouraged to see more collaboration. you know, the these
families can make a tremendous impact. And yes, there are still many that wish to remain secretive, but I'm seeing
leaders step out because they have initiatives that they're passionate about and they want to build a brand to
get others on board because when we collaborate, we can be that much more powerful. and those examples and and the
way they are, you know, forging ahead and getting others to join in the initiatives is it it really moves the
needle. And there's going to be more family offices in the future. There's now 20,000 family offices globally and
they're going to have more power and more influence. So, it's it's it's a sector we cannot ignore. As you know,
I'm I'm optimistic. Well, I know that there's a lot of
structure and language that we can really talk about um evaluating, you
know, how families measure their impact. And and Herman, you've really helped design many of
these things. You've you've helped shape major frameworks such as the equator principles and the OECD guidelines and
the UN guiding principles. There's probably far more that you can share with us, but in developing this, where
do you feel we're still falling short on implementation? And which two mechanisms do you feel can really help close the
gap? I think one of the most important
aspects is listening to all your stakeholders and
whether that's on a global, national or on a regional or even on a on a local basis is get all
the stakeholders who have a positive or a negative interest in what you want to do around the table. And I think that's
that is a starting point of of sound sustainable design inclusive design. I
think that's where I'm sure we're going to discuss it later where family officers can play a crucial
may I say oiling role oiling the wheels role. I mean it's it's oiling is not maybe the right word but but you
understand what I'm saying. Uh so getting the stakeholders at the table uh
I think is is pretty important and make an inventory of what everyone sees in
something which you want to do together. what are my interests, what may be my
contribution map early in the stage, what you want to do and and I think
that's the key point because then you learn that not everyone has wants to have the same outcomes
and and and they may be may be of a different maybe of a different order. Some people may say I I want to have a
financial return. others want to say I just want to have a very nice park in my
area. So I I I'm looking for a return of this initiative in a region or or even
even on on a broader basis. I want to see what what my the return is. So I
think why are we working together working on something where we share we
share interest. It also creates if you do that on a local basis it creates and that has that
has to do with the funding a lot of social equity uh one of those capitals. I mean the
social equity means that some people are prepared to contribute to the project on an inind basis. Mhm.
pensioners or people who are jobless who say I believe in this project and I'm
prepared because I believe in it to work it you create positive energy. So coming
identifying all the stakeholders see where their energy is and then I would
say use the SDGs as as a framework because it it is pretty comprehensive.
It is universal. It's global but also local. It is uh it is um uh I I
sometimes say SDG0 is leave no one behind and SDG 18 is leave no SG behind.
But it it covers many of the issues which in in a project will will come up
and once you do that you come to a a a a picture fund of of scenarios what type
of project you want to create and then you start to monetize it. You need to monetize the interest. You can that to a
large even well-being you can monetize and of course there will be arguments about whether the figures are right but
you it forces you to to to put a value um a monetary value to it
and I think you look at the damage you may do in the project. You look at the benefits and you have the cost of
benefits per per one of the six capitals which you mentioned the financial
capital the natural capital the social capital this the innovation capital and existing facilities if you bring all
that in a matrix you start structuring the deal with everyone around and that's
where I think family office but particularly when it comes to regional development can have a major major
positive impact because they can be the the glue to bring people together.
Yes. Because they are you are as I'm still a little bit ambivalent. I'm looking at my
risk but I'm also also looking at the impact. The true impact impact investor or the philanthropist is looking only
and solely at what is the what is your social intention or the environmental intention. You're looking at the impact you
positive impact you can make on those people you want to to assist or those organizations you want to create. So I I
think I I see a great future and true in the US, true in Europe where impact
investors and and philanthropists can really oil the wheels of community based programs
and bring the pension funds, the business uh the municipalities, bring them at the table and maybe even
moderating type of the conversations because it it is a truly an enormous opportunity for
for family offices to to to step up and say, "I have my social hat. I have my my
impact investor hat. I have my philanthropy hat. We need to sit together and work it out together in the
age of consequences, scarcities, inequalities, pollution, and climate change.
That is powerful. You're truly, you know, being an architect of impact. And it almost requires you start at the end
and reverse engineer and that end is is the goals and it varies from person to
person. So understanding that value you hope to bring and I I
agree I think the family office can be the glue because the way that they tend to think is for the next generation not
always that immediate gain or or what the immediate cycle business cycle is telling them. And um Nava, I've referred
to you as an architect of impact, and I know that your world often intersects
both philanthropy and impact. Do you see your needing to really work
with the families to like Herman said, identify what what the end goal is to
find the right opportunities and collaborators? I think that the from my experience and
my viewpoint the family offices um impact is has a definition different
definition for everyone. Uh it could be if they lost somebody to
a certain disease they're going to invest in in in cancer if if they had somebody losing to an earthquake. So
it's very personal but what I have seen is that they like to co-invest. Yeah. And uh if there's one family that
has an expertise in a certain topic, they do the due diligence. Not all the family offices have the resources to do
the due diligence on every opportunity. So one leads invest and then the others
follow and there's a few platforms uh for them to get together even if they don't know each other especially after
co it was very difficult for them physically to get together. So there's Tonic which you probably heard about and
there's Camden Wealth and in America there's Gratitude Railroad because both Herman and I are in Europe but in in
Gratitude Railroad is specifically for the USA and so they get together they
follow they look and they see and they co-invest together. They feel comfortable hurting their capital
together in a certain impact opportunity. Um the the lone wolves uh I've seen lone
wolves as well. I've seen uh another leader is um Andre Hoffman who you may
know vice president of RO and he's written he's written a book called um the nature of business
and Andre was raised in the south of France you know he's had experience in the summers in this in nature and he's
the chief sustainability officer also the the chairman of the sustainability committee of RO and he looks in advance
100 years he has this lens of 100 years forward and one of this famous saying is
that I don't want to make trouble and and and uh make damage
to nature and then fix it afterwards. I'm going to put that design already in the forefront. And so that's what he
brings into his business strategy is how do I avoid making the damage so I don't
have to fix it when I retire. And that's very rare. That's very rare. I mean,
Paul Pullman is another uh figure that's a leader in that uh respect. Uh and it's
not just not doing enough bad, it's doing good. As Herman said before, it's not enough just to make less damage.
You're still stealing. So, you have to do when you're in a in a a position of responsibility, you have
to do good. I agree. you know, it's it's not necessarily about avoiding harm, but
rather how do we design it that you know, we start from good and it continues on that trajectory. And
Herman, with all the work you do in in forming structures and architecting these things, do you have any ideas what
what really needs to be involved to design with good from the start?
I think there and I'm really focusing on on an area where I feel the family
offices can can create can step up because I I see in in the public life I
see a lot of paralysis uh I see consequently also in the business society
I wouldn't say paralysis but confusion and that's true for the US it's true for Europe and I see also amongst in the
financial sector a a a a regulatory paralysis which whether pension funds or
banks. So there is there's the need to introduce uh new new agents to develop the society
societal projects which we need which are not being picked up by either the government or by the business or by the
financial sector and I think that's and and and and I think family offices and that's what the point I I was trying to
make in my earlier comment. I would I think family offices have a with a
sensitivity in in regions uh close to where the issues are.
They should by out they should by example able to pick up societal needs
and say listen we there is this issue in in our community which we need to address. I'm taking as a family officers
with with my impact or intention focus I take the initiative and it may not be I
mean there is a younger generation there often who who would like to put up their sleeves and say I'm going to work on it
and they should take the initiative to say I'm going to invite for the design
stage of such a community program we going to take the initiative and we're going to identify those parties
who are going to sit at the table so that that's the the point I was trying to make family offices in a world of
confusion, regulatory overkill or or paralysis should have a unique
contribution to get things going to be an agent of change. And I we have a some
platform here in the Netherlands where we do exactly that where we the family offices use that convening power to to
say listen the longer the the longer we wait with addressing it the longer the higher the
price will be the cost will be of not doing it. So that was the point I I was hoping to make
family office step up and and help help create the design and of course um it is
not philanthropy it is it is you you really want to make impact and and
beyond just philanthropy you want to have also the returns which you as a family office would like to define but I
I think it's a it's it we have a we have a criteria for that and maybe that's that's something which you may consider
when we look at regional projects in particular, we say every uh public euro
or dollar should in the financing structure uh mobilize four at least four
private sector euros. So which means you have five euros. Those five euros must create a
societal value of five times. Mhm. So you you need to you need to monetize
what a public euro and government funds are scarce or or or not at all
available. You need to have a an approach where you really say well this
is the input but this is the desired outcome or impact and you need to monetize that. And if you and that
factor of 25 we tested that is is is plausible and by doing that you force
yourself to improve your due diligence to improve your plan to mobilize equity
which otherwise would not have been available. So I think you that is my appeal to family offices here but also
definitely amongst your members in the US and elsewhere. say look at what you
can do in your society by mobilizing other parties who for whatever reason
are absent right now and we need that agent of change. Yes. And they'll in that way we can
transform these global issues into manageable solutions actions and and
then they are the leaders. It's a proven model and you can adapt and take this into your own communities, but you can't
just sit around planning. You you've got to execute. And so that is um very
inspiring, neat to see examples of that already in action. And hopefully this will inspire even more. Nava, I'd be
curious to hear from you. I know how much work that you're able to do across cultures, you know, having done lots of
work in Israel, the Gulf, Europe, Latin America, and you often are able to to
help people with those, you know, cultural differences and and navigate those very strategically. And do you
find I'd love your insights just on making impact cross borders versus, you
know, Herman's approach to very community focused Well, first I want to just add on to
Herman's point is um I'm very optimistic about the wealth transfer, this 32 trillion wealth transfer that's coming
up in the next decade. Um because it's the next generation that will I I really
believe in the next generation and the youth. They may have a smaller pot of capital. Uh but they're going to put it
to the right use. So I'm very hopeful um that they will make the right choices.
uh and because they have to stay here, you know, we we we won't be here. And I think that one of the one of the
problems and the challenges of the principles of the people that made the the wealth in the family offices is that
they're not going to stay around. And and you really see the desperation of the next generation and the because
they're going to have to live in this world afterwards. And so um I just wanted to add that um with respect to
cross um cross communication um and economic cooperation and dealing between
you know I I dealt with Israel and Mena Middle East North Africa I think that the most important thing is humility.
You have to have humility in order to build trust in order to have a win-winwin uh situation. when you have a
joint venture uh between countries cross border you need to have a a trust that's
not that everyone is winning and there's also very famous quote when um where
commerce crosses soldiers do not cross when when when there is trade soldiers
do not go there and I wish you know we would be back in the 90s when um I I was
in the foreign ministry and serving with Shimon Perez at the time when we were signing agreements with our neighbors
instead of what's happening now. And I think if more people listen to that, if there's a common um interest and a
common trade and a common joint venture, then there's less uh violence.
But you need uh you need trust and you need humility.
Very very important. So to both of you, a question to both. Do you think that
there's a tradeoff between focusing capital globally versus locally or can
the two possibly reinforce each other?
Na. Okay. Ladies first. Um I believe um
people have a geographic geographical bias that they like to invest where they
are. They understand the world where they live. I have many investors saying to me when I send
something about emerging markets, they say, "No, no, I only do Europe and North America because that's what they feel comfortable."
And the way to overcome that is what Patrick Odier is doing. Patrick OD is the chairman of Lombardi Yoda and he's
taking delegations to Africa. He's taking delegations of asset managers to Africa to show them the potential of the
people and the demographic. And that's how you change. You have to feet on the ground. That's how you change the
perception of the asset managers and the decision makers. So having a trusted guide essentially
and that kind of refers back to families co-investing with other families, you know, where their comfort level, where
their expertise, their ability to do the proper diligence, you know, when those families align in value, it helps open
those opportunities um beyond just what they feel comfortable. But the the trust is the foundation. And yeah, often
having the boots on the ground experiences. And I I'm going to give a commercial for Patrick Kodia because he's having an
event in Geneva, Building Bridges, and it's where finance meets sustainability,
sustainability meets finance. And that's taking place at the end of September 28th, October 2nd. So if anybody's in
Europe, uh this is a great place to to meet the principles of their family offices, to meet the next generation, to
meet the Andre Hoffman's of the world, and uh it's it's a great event. It's a sixth edition coming up.
Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, all of the resources you've shared today, it's like we need a cheat sheet for all of
um well, I'd love to talk about the um sustainable development goals. You know, there are these 17 and I'd love to hear
from each of you on a personal level. Which of them are you most passionate about?
18. I'm I'm I'm a golf player. So, anyhow,
maybe 19 or 12, but 18. Leave no STG behind. That is my
favorite because I think that's because it is not in due diligence or in in in discussions
with stakeholders, you need to to look at all of them in their in in their in
their connection and what we have in in in SDG the Netherlands which is the community of SDG uh practitioners uh in
civil society, business and academia and a sparing partner of the government. We
we we we we of course have uh a number of organizations involved but we also
have uh ambassadors for each individual S each individual SDG. So we have a
group of 17 ambassadors in the Netherlands for SD1 to 17 and
interesting enough they all recognize that there is so there's so many cross
connections with all the other ones that you uh you cannot do it by yourself. So
18 is for me the most important one. Consider all of them. Some that may be
material for you now. They may become material later. But I I would say 18 is
my favorite SDG. I love that.
So mine is uh a bit different. My answer is a bit different because when I first started looking when I announced I'm
doing sustainable investing I started looking which direction do I want to go and then I realize that in Israel
there's a new protein uh ecosystem new protein how do we feed the world in 2050
10 billion people and how do we expedite the efficiency of that and so for me
it's agriculture food tech u water anything in that space
resonates with me and uh this is where I like to put my effort to help uh and
then you as Herman said when you have water when you know one of my a great uh project uh Sunil Alvani one of my
friends is Raj uh project magi and he's uh providing sustainable access to clean
water in Africa and then you realize it's also gender because it's females that are taking they are the ones that
are have don't have to go to the river to bring the water so when you're helping water you're helping gender
you're helping inequality so It it is all in the end a web. Uh but for me the
how it started was food, new proteins and water. And Nava I know you do have to leave
here shortly. So one last question for you and then Herman it's all you and me through for the remainder but you know
you you did mention those those SGs that are very passionate to you. You brought up an example of a family office who
really had put those into practice after exiting their agricultural business. And
so for other families that really want to participate meaningfully, what are the first steps you would recommend? I
mean, who would you partner with locally? What would you ask it for in diligence? And what would you watch for
in red flags? Uh, I I would look for the um events
that are taking place around me. There's a lot of events taking place. There's a lot of online events taking place. You
don't necessarily need to fly across the Atlantic or across the Pacific. There's
a lot of uh online events. Jen um the global impact investing network. Uh
there's a lot of that's how I educated myself about what's going on and it's constantly changing the the it's
constantly the language is getting standardized more and more. The measurement is getting standardized. Uh
Jin event is taking place in Berlin October 7th through 9th. But if you're not available to go there, you know,
just go online and educate yourself and um find your partners that you trust. Uh
and be patient because we do need patient capital to fix this. And uh do
not be greedy. Uh be patient and pretend that you want to live in the world if
you're not old enough. But pretend what is the world that I'm leaving for my grandchildren? you know, if I'm the
grandchild, this is how I would uh look at it and and and put my money to work.
Beautiful. Well, that was such a a wonderful way for you to leave. I know you have a very important meeting. So, I
wish you luck and thank you from the bottom of my heart for Thank you, Danielle. The inspiration and wisdom with us today
and thank you, Hermon, and I appreciate having this time with you. See you in person. Good luck with the
rest. Lovely. Thank you. So yeah, Herman, the same question could certainly um apply
if you have anything to add on to what um Nava just shared with us in terms of you know the questions we should ask who
would you partner with locally. How would you what would you ask for in diligence and what would you watch for
and red flags? Let let me first comment and it's a pity never had to leave but I'd comment on
what you just said. I yes we need patient capital. Yes, but maybe it has to do with my age. But
we don't need patient minds. We should be very ambitious.
All of us because uh by waiting longer the price will only be higher.
Uh so I that's that's that's my my first comment. I'm I'm in a hurry so to speak
and I hope you will be as well. Um
I would say the let me go back before I answer your question on the SDGs. Um
yes I think it's good to recognize that we are failing our ambitions as we set them
in Rio plus 20 and it was adopted by by the United Nations and by all of us in
in 2015. And I think we we have to recognize after the uh initial excitement there is right now some I
wouldn't say fatigue but say well 2030 is the is the year that we have
completed the first stage of the SGS by definition they are not complete but you see some loss of of attention for the SG
and that worries me because I can see uh but even more I would say in the world of today this
opportunity framework is is timeless. It is it is universal. It can be applied in
developing countries. It can be appi applied in in cities or in neighborhoods. It is it can be applied
everywhere. And I think we have a mission here uh as the believers to say listen 2030 is artificial. We have to
revite because it doesn't mean that we have finished the job. No, the journey goes on.
It's never that. Exactly. And I think we should change the the the the the
conversation and say listen we realize that we cannot do all of the above at the same time with everyone. Mhm.
continue the mission and and I would I would invite any any government to say
listen and as a matter of working on that in here in the Netherlands what what does it take with with having lost
some momentum what does it take to realize what we have achieved should be achieved in in 2030 five years later
come with a with a comprehensive investment plan for instance uh alongside the SDGs what is needed to
realize that how many investments, how much public capital, how much private capital, how much philanthrop
philanthropic, how can we get a plan together? That's my first recommendation
to all of us. Don't submit yourself to the fatigue of 2030.
The journey goes on. As a matter of fact, we have to revitalize it.
It is it is in the interest of all. It's not left or right. It's not woke or anti-woke. is it is a universal agenda
which whether you whatever your view of society is we need to because sometimes
I say nothing is impossible particularly when it's inevitable well all the symptoms which are addressed in the SGS
sooner or later will haunt us if we don't address them
so now come back to the practicality SDGs because we we missing the the initial targets and I think here the
regions the cities These the neighborhoods what we have been discussing are crucial because that's
where you can mobilize the social equity and also when you address the issues
close to where the problem is the the the cooperation will be much
more focused on the solution. We're not talking about politics or principles.
No, we just want to get it done. Yes, I think that is what we need and that's why I believe whether it's the STGS from
New York or the SGS in the neighborhood in as I would call here in Reandh
that's where you you have to use the the instrument you have to to come to solutions and one of the problems with
the paralysis in society right now here in the London is is permitting because we have endless endless
procedures appeals against permits Right? And that's an obstacle. Now, if you
engage, as I said before, all the stakeholders associated who will be affected by a windmill project or by a a
river dam or by um whatever project you have in a region, you can if you include
them, your case to prevent all those appeals deferring and even abolishing
this project will be killed. is early engagement, early due diligence, early
engagement not only on the issues but with all the stakeholders I think is crucial and that comes back to my my my
my hope for the family office to see it's not just funding and it's not just
seeing the impacts making take a leadership role be you want to be for
the communities for the community outcome or community impact and that's fun it's structured finance as a banker
I would say I would love to do it yes I think that's where you can the younger generation of the family office can say
I'd love to do that and and of course you can you can charge a fee which as a as a family office which you only get if
it is successful. So you may also reinforce say the the
wallet you have to do more things. No pay if you do it right. I think you
can make an very interesting impact driven outcomed driven regional business case.
Incredible. And then be that needed leader that person who's actually put it
into practice shown the returns shown the impact shown the effect. It's on
that local level. You're right. I mean, it comes down to being able to mobilize and getting aligned, having that trust
as well. And so, I think starting with your community, forming that alignment
and and really executing. And I'm so inspired by your enthusiasm. You're a
mover and a shaker. Look at all the things that you're involved in. It's it's, you know, a testament to your
passion. And it's sad that maybe all of these logistics and red tape and
people's own fear paralyzes them. And so a great great encouraging starting point
is just to start local. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I know there are a few questions I will read. Jonathan K from the audience
asks how to bridge the gap between the family office looking for investment the
opportunities at the early stage companies to be invested in and the specific often difficult due diligence
that has to be done for such opportunities. This is a good question. It's complex.
due diligence is is I would say AI is a main driver of
significantly improving your due diligence. And I I would really encourage everyone use AI to to to to to
prompt reference cases or reference investment opportunities and see what
are the learnings of those. I mean, I I think I I really believe in the power of AI to to deepen uh the the due diligence
uh to to raise the bar and of course ask the better questions
um to yourself and to those who who are your partners. So I I would say I'm I I
as I said I have now three flight engineers or co-pilots in my cockpit and
I I my productivity and I also would say when it comes to project analyses go
into the depth looking for reference cases enables me to for those who are
promoting a a a an initiative to ask better questions
and maybe I'm asking the questions which they haven't thought about. So I would say due diligence is greatly benefiting
from from using AI in a very sensible way and of course there are many chat bots you you need to validate your
questions or the answers with each other with with some of the of of the chat bots but I because it's it of course
it's it's it's it's it is the machine but I I do take them seriously
to raise my the quality of my questions in my due diligence. That's how I look at and and it surprised me. I was
working on a project the other day on insoles and then I noticed that that
no it looks like Herman cut out for a moment by asking questions which the company who wants me to invest in
hadn't raised the question itself. So and if that's that is are we frozen? You
You came back. You froze there for a minute, but we could hear you throughout.
You're good, Herman. There was a little freeze, but we can still hear you.
Well, I'm glad our our technical difficulties only happened here right at the end, but I was I really wanted to
ask Herman what AI tools he personally uses. you know, there's so many out there and I was curious to know if there
was an offtheshelf that he gravitates towards or he um has built some of his
own. But we will we will have to get those answers and follow up in our in our chat where the art where the event
will be archived on LinkedIn. Well, I'm so thankful that the technical problems did not um follow us throughout and we
have just about come up to our time. So, I would love to thank all of you for
being here. I know time is our most precious resource and asset and so thank you for sharing it with us. This has
just been a wonderful conversation. I'm very grateful to both Nava and Herman for being here. And uh for those
exploring aligned family offices, today's lunch and learn is brought to you by family office access. And I
invite you to our website familyoffaccess.com where you can start a free trial. And
for our members who are tuning in live, you are welcome to use the promotion
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time, wishing everyone meaningful connections that last and thank you for
being here today with us.
